“You cannot restrict unfreedom to a particular class of people. It will metastasize to consume the entire society.” @jbouie https://www.nytimes.com/2025/04/16/opinion/trump-court-order-constitution.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare ht @jeffjarvis
@Phil @jbouie @jeffjarvis Look. This is just pure sloppiness. You have no idea what I think about the grab bag of cases discussed in this piece. I haven't paid attention to most of them. I think that sending anyone on an indefinite term to a third-world prison no one has ever been released from is something the United States shouldn't do, and especially shouldn't do without due process. 1/
@Phil@freeatlantis.com@interfluidity @jbouie @jeffjarvis
what process do you think is due? I think very little for somebody here illegally.
@Phil @jbouie @jeffjarvis Perhaps you can argue not so much process is due for ordinary deportation to a home country in which a person would be a free citizen. I suspect we'd disagree on how much process would be due, but that'd be a less fundamental disagreement. 1/
@Phil @jbouie @jeffjarvis But a whole lot of fucking process is due before "deporting" (really renditioning) someone to a third-country gulag, whose conditions of imprisonment we neither control nor monitor, from which no one is ever released. And a whole lot of process is due prior to deporting a person to a home country after a judicial finding they specifically cannot be deported to that home country on valid legal grounds. /fin
@interfluidity @jbouie @jeffjarvis
The prison only opened in 2023 so the fact that nobody has been released yet is meaningless. It was built for gangs that were running rampant and terrorizing el salvadore. It would be absurd if some were already released.
It's amazing how much you spin things to match your feels.
The judicial finding was obviously bs and rooted in ideology, not law and will be overturned.
Where was the fretting over the J6 People, they're due process was a gross farce
@Phil @jbouie @jeffjarvis "El Salvador's justice minister once said the only way out is in a coffin." https://www.cbsnews.com/news/what-records-show-about-migrants-sent-to-salvadoran-prison-60-minutes-transcript/
Sure, we don't know they never leave. We do know they have no fixed terms, their stay is indefinite and at the discretion of their jailers. That is a violation of any human's rights. If you're judged to have done something so egregious to merit life withour parole, you know it. Otherwise, you know what you owe. 1/
@Phil @jbouie @jeffjarvis All the J6 people had full due process. That doesn't mean I agree with all the prosecutions and outcomes — had I had the discretion of a prosecutor, I might have been more lenient with low-level nonviolent trespassers. But they got lawyers, trials, rights-of-appeal, etc. They did time because they did the crime, even if you think the circumstances of their crime should have exonerated them. /fin
@interfluidity @jbouie @jeffjarvis
Name one person in the US outside of the J6 People who did time for tresspassing, or were charged with trasspassing and denied bail.
That was a railroading by libs, but that's ok, even if the due process was a sham, because if having a doctorate in hyprocracy is a prerequisite for being a modern liberal.
@Phil @jbouie @jeffjarvis i mean, just ctrl-f the word "jail". it's nearly all trespassing or trumped up "disorderly conduct". https://www.crmvet.org/tim/timhis63.htm
an occupy protester jailed 90 days on trumped up "assault of a police officer" https://www.reuters.com/article/world/us/occupy-wall-street-protester-sentenced-to-90-days-jail-for-assault-idUSBREA4I0K0/
Federalized prosecutions of George Floyd protests. https://m4bl.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/Struggle-For-Power-The-Ongoing-Persecution-of-Black-Movement-by-the-U.S.-Government.pdf
states like FL criminalize association as "riot" and legalize vehicular homicide. https://slate.com/business/2021/04/drivers-hit-protesters-laws-florida-oklahoma-republicans.html
@interfluidity @jbouie @jeffjarvis
E.S is having a much needed war against gangs. The people have been living in terror of them.They have tatoos, that identify them.
There's no evidence that the people being sent there my the US will receive the same treatment as the gang members. It's pure speculation.
And even if they do, which seems likely, ICE is only supposed to send gang members/criminals there.
If an illegal gets wrongly included. that can be sorted once the 20 million are cleared out.
@interfluidity @jbouie @jeffjarvis
you might be shocked at what I think. I don't think illegal immigrants should have every protection that a US citizen has. I don't think that illegal immigrants should have many at all. In fact, I think it should be legal for anybody to shoot anybody seen entering the country at a non legal crossing point. I also think if somebody is found to be in the US illegally, they should be subject to execution.
@Phil @jbouie @jeffjarvis i am disappointed by what you think. i'd like to say i'm shocked, but we've spoken.
what about people like Rümeysa Öztürk, who was in the country legally until, entirely unbeknownst to her, her legal status was revoked because she'd coauthored an op-ed asking Tufts to divest from Israel?
after Rubio signed the revocation, was she subject in your view to immediate execution?
@interfluidity @jbouie @jeffjarvis
No, she was initially here legally. Ideally such revokcatios would give people 30 days to leave, before all protections are removed.
Also i said subject to execution, not automatically executed.
If any crime was comitted in additon to the illegal entry, then execution should be carried out. Or if somebody has been previously deported and sneaks back in, they should be executed.
@Phil @jbouie @jeffjarvis her notification was an abduction.
me, i'm not a fan of executions, under almost any circumstance. certainly not for a two-strikes hit of illegal entry and failing to hold a valid fishing permit.
@interfluidity @jbouie @jeffjarvis
Somebody sneaks into my house, uninvited and there is a very high probability that they will be executed on the spot. I don't see why a country should be any different.
@Phil @jbouie @jeffjarvis i'll do my best not to kill anyone, even if they do sneak into my house. trespass of a country is far less intimate and threatening to life and property than a home. a home invader provokes real safety and self-defense concerns that an undocumented migrant typically does not. 1/
@Phil @jbouie @jeffjarvis why shouldn't the J6-ers, by your reasoning, have been shot for trespassing univited into the People's House? to be clear, i think that would be awful and dumb, and think non-violent mere trespassers among j6-ers ought to have been more leniently treated. but from all accounts, many Congresspeople legit feared for their lives, in the way one might during a home invasion. /fin
@interfluidity @jbouie @jeffjarvis
At least one was shot. it was certainly a risk, although these were american citizens entering a public building, so it isn't quite the same.
@Phil @jbouie @jeffjarvis there are distinctions. but legitimately fearing for ones life is key license to act, even fatally, in self-defense. and there was lots of that fear. we are all fortunate it went down with as little loss of life as it did.
@interfluidity @jbouie @jeffjarvis
I was there. Anybody that feared for their life was a nincompoop.
I did not, however, enter the capital grounds. I saw somebody I knew to be a fed, riling up the crowd and pushing them on and smelled a rat. So i turned to my son and said "something bad is happening here and we are leaving." so we left.
@Phil @jbouie @jeffjarvis i'm glad you didn't go in, but i suggest maybe you don't know how it felt to be a Congressperson hated by the crowd in the circumstances that prevailed inside. or Mike Pence for that matter.
@interfluidity @jbouie @jeffjarvis
Mike Pence is a sanctimonious pussy and very self serving at that.
I saw them hiding under chairs when nobody was even in the room. Bunch of wimps.